That sounds about right.

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Nintendo DS gets an A thanks to hype, hype, and hype. Nintendo is the master of marketing, period.

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After reading the comments in Joystiq and Kotaku, i really don't understand all the hate towards the PSP. But what bugs me is the fact that most arguments are just, well, hateful. So Sony is a monster for using a proprietary format like the UMD. Damn, and here I was thinking Nintendo does the same. Silly me, Nintendo uses only open formats.
So it looks like the PSP is doomed because it doesn't sell the gazillion units the DS sells. A constant rate of 20000 units per month just in Japan is bad.
It's just boring to read all those comments over and over. "Zomg t3h ds pwns coz its all bout teh gamez t3h psp got no good gmaes and no onlien supoprt and i can plya mairo krat on t3h intarwerbz!". :/

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Well Claudius, it's a two-way street. When the PS2 was dominating the GC and Xbox, many Sony fanboys were screaming about how the other two suck because they don't sell as well as the PS2. Even though Nintendo made a profit from everything and those that bought it enjoyed it, fanboys were trolling about how Nintendo was going the way of Sega and nothing could save them and their "horrible" system. Now with the PSP selling less then half of the DS week after week, Nintendo fanboys have been throwing the same stuff back at the Sony fanboys. Even though myself and the rest of you have enjoyed the PSP and it's games, you can't deny that the PSP is losing in sales. Most of the arguments used by both sides are the same ones from before, only switched sides.

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I totally understand your point, Sponge. However, I don't think the PSP sales figures are that bad. According to Sony, there are 22.94 million units already shipped. That's a huge number. And even though there's no way to know how many units have already sold worldwide, I'm sure the number is strong for a handheld with less than two years. Of course, the DS is a great machine, and has already sold well over 26 million worldwide, but the fact that the DS is winning doesn't mean the PSP is doomed and all :/
Maybe I'm too much of a believer, though.

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199 US DOLLA*

*Memory sticks sold seperately, LCD has ghosting effect problem, Slow UMD loading times, Analog nub and dpad suck, Battery life(of battery shipped with unit) sucks.

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Now that's fanboyish. So let's get to it, as fanboys:

Memory Stick sold separately: Actually, the PSP comes with a 32MB stick. And there are other packs with 1GB. However, I do agree it kinda sucks having to pay a huge amount of bucks just to get more space, but the 1GB sticks are cheap nowadays.
LCD has ghosting effect problem: Sure. But is it that bad? I can watch movies and play games (and I do that a lot) and the ghosting problem just doesn't seem to bother me, even when playing things such as Shinobido Homura or Ridge Racer.
Slow UMD loading times: I forgot how waiting 10 seconds for something kills the patience of most kids. :/
Analog nub and dpad suck: Yes. Sadly, they do, at least for fighting games (and that hurts).
Battery life: At max light, max volume and using the wifi, all at the same time, yes, it's not optimal (not to say it sucks...), but I assume gamers are not that dumb as to being unable to understand the art of battery saving.

I know these problems could be addressed, and it'd be for the best, but rising hell over them is being way too b1453d, zomg.

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Memory stick sold seperately for 199 US DOLLA* Core System. 32 MB stick bundled with 249 US DOLLA Value Pack. 1 GB stick bundled with 299 US DOLLA Giga Pack.

*LCD ghosting effect is a problem for some gamers, so its appropriate that it be addressed.

*Slow UMD loading times is much more than 10 seconds for all games. Proof: GameSpot's "Under the Hood: PSP Load Times" feature, link: http://www.gamespot.com/features/6159832/p-2.html

*Battery life(of battery shipped with unit) much worse than competition(DS Lite Battery life: 15–19 hours on the lowest brightness setting, 5–8 hours on the highest. Note: DS Lite on highest brightness setting is brighter than PSP on highest brightness setting, with AC adapter unplugged on PSP). Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ds_lite#Features

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Ok , your an idiot , you proved it , so now go home ,and have a nother orgasm ;/ So what , all this sites have there parts , but lets see what SCE says about MS or Nintendo lol

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I know this is pointless as a discussion (of course, matter of opinions). However, I think your most valid point is that, when something is a problem for some gamers, it should be addressed.
Anyway, just for the sake of our fun, let's do a comparison:
The NDS wouldn't need more than 32mb for save states, right? And even though there are ways to put homebrew on it (and with it music and videos and all), I don't see many people complaining. The PSP suffers from such criticism because it offers more than games (which is music and videos). And it's valid as it is.
(By the way, you can get a 1GB stick for about 37 bucks).
The ghosting isn't that big of a problem for me. I haven't met anyone who owns a PSP and feels sick about the ghosting (online doesn't really count!). It could be fixed, but it isn't a priority since it doesn't look like it affects a lot of people.
Ok, 1 minute and 40 seconds average (as an overstatement, actually). Wow. I don't know why, but I don't really see it as a long time. And seeing the difference between Nintendogs and GTA VCS, I'm OK with it. (I'm not playing any Smackdown games, thats for sure though.)
And battery life, while not the best by far, sure, isn't really that bad. However, that and the D-pad thingy would be the things I'd like to see fixed. Of course I'd love to be able to play for more hours without having to change the luminosity of my screen, but meh.

A comparison against the NDS is fair, anyway. And while I do not accept the PSP as a failure and don't understand the hate towards it, it's easy to see the NDS as the big Nintendo winner (after all, it's the first Nintendo system that was outsold in Japan!)

And in case of an ad hominem argument: While I don't own an NDS, I don't feel hatred towards Nintendo. I still hold very dear my GBA, but after testing the NDS, I didn't like it. And I was so excited about it :/

Let's keep this open and nice.

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Claudius, calm down buddy! I was merely giving out some facts about the PSP to express my opinion of why the PSP got a, generous to say the least, B grade whereas the DS Lite got an A grade.

You NEED memory sticks for gaming on the PSP. Afterall, you need to store your game saves somewhere right? So its a requirement that you need to pay for whether you pay extra for a Value Pack or whether you purcase the Core System and spend additional money on a memory stick. The DS Lite, on the other hand, doesnt require you to buy a memory stick since all the game saves are on the Game Cards themselves. Afew other, but admitedly insignificant "hidden" costs are headsets and PSP protection. If i want to voice chat in a PSP game, I'm required to purchase a headset. With the DS Lite, I can voice chat in-game with my friends during Tony Hawk's DownHill Jam 4-player online play. I dont need to purchase protection for my DS Lite since it has a clamshell design.

I respect your view that LCD ghosting effects, battery life, and UMD load times arent a problem for YOU, but they are a problem for some gamers.

A mediocre hardware solution automatically means mostly mediocre games. Developers shouldnt be blamed for the lackluser sales of PSP games. This distinction should be awarded to Sony for giving developers mediocre hardware to work with. When your games have slow loading times, suffer from lcd ghosting effects, and suffer from crappy controls due to the dpad and single analog nub, your games will automatically be mediocre no matter how hard you worked on them. I call the PSP game library mediocre not because of game reviews, but because of lackluster game sales. Now you might not think the PSP game library is mediocre, but most gamers do which is the reason for the mediocre game sales.

If you compare the amount of PSP games that have sold in the millions versus the amount of DS Lite games that have sold in the millions, its really no comparison: DS Lite wins hands down in that area.

Again, my original post was to highlight the key reasons why the PSP isnt doing as well as the competition.

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Hmm,so far my savestates count more than 60, and all of those fit in a 32MB stick. The main thing about getting a big memory stick is to "unleash" the potential of the PSP as a multimedia device, so you can store videos and mp3s (and homebrew, if you feel like doing so, but even with the 32MB I was able to store some roms for the SNES a year ago). Don't get me wrong, I think it's not nice to have to buy something else in order to get what you paid for originally, but the 32MB stick should suffice when it's just about the games, at least in most cases.
The headset is a good point though. But most games don't use the feature over their online services (and people didn't complain about the Xbox headset back then, so I don't see it as a big deal).
The protection thing is a tricky one. For one Sony does deliver the pouch where you can put your PSP. I still use it and haven't bought a protection, but it isn't optimal. But then, do people really need to get it? Nah, not really. At least not that much.
I completely disagree about the mediocre hardware. The main problem is that people expect the PSP to be a PS2, which it isn't (all while it does deliver home console like games). Back in the day the PS1 didn't require the use of both sticks and we got some amazing games. Now we do too, like both MGA, the GTA games, Ridge Racer, and I could go on, but it's easy to get my point. So people blame Sony for not giving the right software, but developers are the ones who should create ways to create through it.

I'd see this more like a "cultural" problem: handheld games are supposed to be fun and short most of the times, so you can play them on the bus or whatever. And the NDS gives that with a nice stile that appeals to both gamers and non gamers (which, in the end, is the main target for the console, I think). So yes, I don't think the PSP game library is mediocre, but then, I don't like the NDS library, which was the reason why I got the PSP in the first place. I think the B in the article was just fine, and the NDS getting an A was as right as the B was for the PSP. We all know better hardware doesn't mean better sales, so it's just natural.

So maybe the PSP is like the Dreamcast, made for a generation not ready for it (thinking about the technological leap from the GBA to the NDS and the PSP). But sales seem to be strong, and I bet it has already sold more than the DC did :P (Ah, I love my DC.)

But hey, what would you expect, this is PSPFanboy. I'm just trying to put things in perspective according to what I think. I'm not attacking you, in case you believe that, on the contrary, I'm trying to have a fun, interesting exchange of words.

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"Claudius, calm down buddy! I was merely giving out some facts about the PSP"

No, you're trying to start the same old bashing nonsense you and so many other Nintendo brats do on this and every other Sony based forum or blog.

"You NEED memory sticks for gaming on the PSP. Afterall, you need to store your game saves somewhere right?"

Just like the Gamecube. Only difference, a basic 32MB PSP Memory Stick will cost you far less than its equivalent on the NGC. Just like other disc based consoles.

"Afew other, but admitedly insignificant "hidden" costs are headsets and PSP protection."

The DS doesn't come with headsets or screen/case protection, either. More typical fanboy double standards. If Nintendo does it, it's wonderful - if Sony does it, EVIL EVIL EVIL! BAD! WRONG! RIPOFF!

"With the DS Lite, I can voice chat in-game with my friends during Tony Hawk's DownHill Jam 4-player online play."

The ONLY DS game to support this so far, and only with friend codes. The SOCOM headset is a whopping $17 at Wal-Mart.

"I respect your view that LCD ghosting effects, battery life, and UMD load times arent a problem for YOU, but they are a problem for some gamers."

Battery life isn't a problem for anyone. I got 6.5+ hours out of my original pack and my 2200mAh (not even the highest available) nets me well over 7-8.

"A mediocre hardware solution automatically means mostly mediocre games. Developers shouldnt be blamed for the lackluser sales of PSP games."

Typical troll. I guess this logic applies to the Gamecube and N64?

Funny how you go on to say that the library is 'mediocre' not because of bad reviews (which contradicts your whole point about controls, ghosting and load times rendering all games no better than mediocre)... But because of SALES. Funny, I used to think sales were more an indicator of marketing and hype. Thanks for schooling us all in what it REALLY TAKES to make a good game.

"Now you might not think the PSP game library is mediocre, but most gamers do which is the reason for the mediocre game sales."

Again, so this means every other home console system over the past 10 years or so has been 'mediocre' except the Playstation 1 and 2.

"Again, my original post was to highlight the key reasons why the PSP isnt doing as well as the competition."

No, your original (and subsequent) posts have been to highlight your fanboy devotion to Nintendo, which moves you to troll Sony PSP threads in a logically and factually bankrupt attempt to slam your hated rival system.

Meanwhile, that STUNNING assortment of dog sims, cooking sims, brain trainers, 'mediocre' rated big releases like Children of Mana, Touch Detective, Magical Starsign, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon and many others continues to look pretty damned 'mediocre' to me... And this from a guy who has owned Nintendo systems since the Game & Watch days and plunked scores of quarters into Donkey Kong before most reading this were born. I've got about $100 in Virtual Boy games on order (I have three in box) and have a preorder for a Wii but not a PS3. Hmm.

But hey, how can you argue with the PSP's horrible screen, Gamespot's totally fair loading times analysis (all games take five minutes minimum), overpriced Memory Sticks (glorious Nintendo systems never use such things, certainly not the Wii), ten minute battery life and AWFUL higher-ranked game library... When you have such a spectacular lineup on the DS that includes the following recent releases:

game ---- metascore

Bubble Bobble Revolution 38
Crash Boom Bang 36
Freedom Wings 46
Lego Star Wars II 47
Tenchu Dark Secret 38
Pokemon Mystery... 63
Nacho Libre 57
Alex Rider Stormbreaker 51
Cooking Mama 66 (high sales = good?)
Garfield a Tale... 57

...And such AWESOME new games as BRAIN BOOST and BRATZ... but hey, everything on the PSP is mediocre because, um, I guess critics don't seem to understand that ALL games for the PSP are bad 'no matter how the developers work' to overcome its glaring flaws.

Because, you know, the DS Lite is *totally free* of any defects or inadequate features like weak d-pad diagonals:

PROOF!!1111!11:
http://ds.ign.com/articles/721/721201p1.html

Go home, sonny.

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I guess I'll chime in. My view of the original article is, the SUCCESS factor of the DS and PSP warrants an A and B grade, respectively. But if you're talking about games and how those games have been received by critics, the PSP should score above the DS. The Nintendo handheld certainly holds its own with its target demographic and appeals to a wider range unlike the teen-to-30's male the PSP is aimed at, but other than a smash marketing success, I don't see it as the better system, even including some of the better offbeat titles.

Now, as for the comments:

"Nintendo DS gets an A thanks to hype, hype, and hype. Nintendo is the master of marketing, period."

I agree, but the DS does get high marks for carrying on the GBA tradition in style, plus Nintendo DID revise it and bring the Lite - if they hadn't, I doubt we'd be seeing such high sales or widespread media acclaim.

"After reading the comments in Joystiq and Kotaku, i really don't understand all the hate towards the PSP"

It's bias for Nintendo. Everyone loves them. How can you not? They brought us Mario. Their characters are known the world over. Sony is seen as an evil corporation bent on domination (deserved and not). What I find amusing is when bloggers/writers at sites like Joystiq make a feeble attempt at refuting their own bias. Nice try.

"Well Claudius, it's a two-way street."

So that's OK for others to act like petty fanboys? I think not. Besides, the anti-Sony media sentiment has nothing to do with Playstation fanboys (which plays a distant second fiddle to the raging Nintendo advocacy that goes on across blogs and forums, btw).

"fanboys were trolling about how Nintendo was going the way of Sega and nothing could save them and their "horrible" system"

And again, 1). the vast majority of extremism you see online are anti-Sony, pro-Nintendo fanboys posting the opposite (even back in 2001) and 2). one fanboy idiot doesn't justify another.

"Memory sticks sold seperately, LCD has ghosting effect problem, Slow UMD loading times, Analog nub and dpad suck, Battery life(of battery shipped with unit) sucks."

Case in point - asswipe Nintendo fanatic spewing the same old bullshit that forums were overloaded with even BEFORE the PSP shipped in 2004. The LCD smearing isn't a problem with most games (I'll take it over two separated tiny low-rez displays), UMD loading times depend on the game (that's the tradeoff between 128MB maximum capacity and 1.8 gigabytes), the analog and d-pad work fine depending on the game (I'll take them over the balancing act stylus crap) and the battery life has always been very good, 5-6hrs+ with the stock batt, equal or better to the DS Lite on full brightness.

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My dear claudius and wii.... here is my point of view on every questions.

First on the psp points.

memory card...with the value pack, there is a 32 mb...its fair enough to play and save games...i have 20 games on psp and it take 8mb of full time space on the card...
Then you can say its not really good for movies or music, but then the ds is clearly obsolete in my eyes...because you have to buy a cartridge adapter to use memory cards, and there is no fonction straight forward to playback music nor videos...so in this side DS lose.

For the ghost screen, it is just a time after lighting up the screen. It disapear after a while...except when developers are not so good ( liberty city has it, while vice city doesnt...rockstar learned from their mistakes )

For the battery life, i never saw it as a real problem, except in a 11h trip by plane. Like a mobile phone, a mobile gaming system is not meant to be played 10 hours straight in the raw. It is more a short play then turn off. And go home and charge ( like new mobile phones...not more than 8 h for the motorola v3...who complain, is it hard to charge it once home ???? )
By the way, on the side of the psp, the standby mode is really working well. You can play RPG without save points and put it in stand by without the use of the battery....It is not the case in the DS. Stand by sucks and uses the battery, and most of games hardly have save points...very portable.
But i agree that sony should have provided a larger battery, like a 3000 ma...and it would not have been more expensive...
For the controls...i think people are strange, it is not bright on the psp, but try to play fighting games on DS, and maybe i have big hands, but i feel it painfull even...Playing mario and luigi was so much worst than the gba...tired same as PSP...it depends on the game...and try to play metroid on the left hand mode, and you will understand my complain...
For the umd, it is a bit disapointing kind of thing, but try to put a psp game with the kind of video and graphics on a ds card, and you will have a hard time...
The umd movies where great thing, and the games are great to, and i dont thing the reason is this or that on the hardware the loading or details like this, or else the ds would not sale good ( screen scratch easily, original ds sold good despite a weak screen and ugly design, games tend to be repetitive after the discovery moment passed, no head set in the box, childish games,etc...i am no fan boy, i just copy past from some forums... )
The main reason why it does not sale, is the price...god damit...
Be reasonable to only point out this...it is too expensive on the software side. UMD are way too expensive, and movies nearly as much as DVD, and this sucks...
If sony would drop the price, you would see the sales explode...many of my friends choose DS for the price tag...not the games...they would love to own a psp, but they find it too overpriced.
For the developers side, they are not legion again because of the development kit price. The psp kit is double price than the ds, and sony support for developer is ridiculous...if they would improve this it would change the thing big time...

Again, i have nothing against nintendo, i own a DSlite, i enjoy it, and have at least 15 games...but i dont understand this arguments against the psp without pointing out the DS ones...

Both system are good, even if i prefere the psp for the actions games and RPG...so just stop arguing the PSP system is not good, try games and play them until finishing them, it is also rewarding

And no there is no chiuaua games on sony's side, nor mario or zelda...and it is not a problem to me, i play them on DS, and enjoy killzone much more...

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Claudius, I havent taken offense to any of your posts! Its not my style to get offended so easily ;) I too am enjoying this surprisingly constructive Ninty/Sony fanboy discussion, ofcourse with the exception of Alien's response(guess its way too easy to hit a fanboy nerve every now and then)!

About the PS1, I think you would agree with me that the PS1's controller dpad was MUCH better than the PSP dpad. So most games on the PS1, especially racing games, had pretty nice gameplay control! Now compare that to racing games on the PSP. No comparison, PS1 gameplay wins hands down because of the superior dpad!

When Sony replaced the original controller with the Dual Shock 1, us gamers got two analog sticks and two rumle motors! PS1 outdid the N64 with its single analog stick and single rumble motor(although the single analog stick for the N64 was more comfortable and precise). Let me just put it this way: FPS games NEED TWO proper analog sticks or alternatives such as the keyboard/mouse setup or touch screen or motion sensing! Now FPS games on the PSX were respectable: Good due to the two analog sticks, lacking due to the placement of the sticks and comfortness/precision.

Compare that to the single analog nub on the PSP! FPS game control on the PSP is horrible because a single analog stick solution just cant work. This is the reason virtually every PSP FPS game has an autolock feature! Because developers realised using the single analog nub together with the face buttons for gameplay is just rediculous! Now compare this to Metroid Prime Hunters on the DS. A true FPS game with amazing controls! Its a shame the DS has only two FPS games, MPH being amazing and than you have a crappy N64 FPS port! Autolock in an FPS game = not a true FPS game!

So basically my point is, PSX dpad and dual analog sticks pwn the PSP's dpad and single analog nub when it comes to game control! Now if Sony had made a proper dpad and two proper analog sticks for the PSP, I probably wouldnt be typing right now!

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Well, yeah, the PS1 dpad was/is better than most dpads around, and the PSP dpad is hard to master with certain games. However, the nub is pretty cool for racing games. I've found myself enjoying it more than I used to in the PS1 (mainly in Ridge Racer).
Talking about FPSs, Medal of Honor: Heroes is a great example of what can be achieved with just one nub. At first it's not that easy, but it mantains the whole feeling of a WWII FPS and it feels pretty natural. Like playing Half Life on the DC: at first it felt awkward, but the control scheme worked just fine.

Actually, Metroid Prime Hunters was the first game I tried for the DS, and I hated it. I'm pretty used to play FPSs on my computer, and already had the FPS handheld experience with DooM on the GBA, so I thought I'd get used to the NDS system. But when I tried it, it didn't feel right. Graphically it wasn't a big achievement, but that wasn't its main problem. The thing with the touchscreen was that, however intuitive it could be, made it feel like a bad joke. Besides, the "keep it clean" Nintendo policy doesn't help with these kind of games. Yes, the PSP doesn't have that many FPSs (or TPSs): Star Wars Battlefront II (not really good, pretty limited); Socom (actually an amazing game, online is cool as hell); Ghost in the Shell (haven't played it); MoH: Heroes (great game, just too short); Infected (didn't like the control scheme, but it worked), et caetera.

The PSP is more than capable to handle a first person shooter, but the developers need to pay attention to the details and learn from their previous mistakes. What I do see is a certain contempt, developers launching games without exhaustive testing.

My main issue is with fighting games, and basically with SFA3 Double Upper. I love that game, but not being able to execute the moves I want to make me want to cry. Yet, the GBA didn't handle those controls all that well in the SFA3 GBA release. I can't be sure about that on the NDS until I try it, though.

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Cant believe a useless machine like DS gets A. It only has some low-budget Mario games that sell millions thanks to immature gamers. PSP is an powerfull game console and also a semi-laptop. You kan use it for music, mail, movies and modding it makes it a true portable PC. DS a "Gotta-have"? Not in my book and definitly not in book of anyone with a working brain.

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"a single analog stick solution just cant work"

Excuse my interruption of your ongoing PSP trashing reverie, but: Goldeneye N64 & Perfect Dark N64.

These two solidly AAA-rated titles tend to contradict the above quote.

"Actually, Metroid Prime Hunters was the first game I tried for the DS, and I hated it"

Me, too. It has a lot of depth, but a deeply flawed control scheme that I can't enjoy. I'd much rather play Coded Arms, despite the it being a lesser game in all other respects.

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